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December 17, 2003
If I Had It To Do Over
I like to believe that women in their 20's and 30's are actually reading this. I like to pretend I'm writing this for my friend Liz who's just starting her career (graduated from Duke last year) and is so smart and funny and ambitious and I'm whispering in her ear, telling her if I had it to do over, what I'd do. Actually, when I think of Liz, there's not much I would tell her. She's got it way more figured out than I ever did. But there are a few things I'd tell her.
I'd tell her this. Rush, don't walk, rush to any opportunity where you can learn to get up in front of a group and do some (DREADED) public speaking. I did do this myself, by joining Dale Carnegie and later becoming a Dale Carnegie teaching assistant, but not until another woman boss ... Betsy Ashton I believe -- thanks Betsy ... forced me to do it in my mid-30's.
What else would I do? This is so hard to say. In my 20's and 30's I thought being in love and following a man to another city and putting his career ahead of mine and love ahead of learning was a good idea. I'm sure no other women out there ever did anything so dumb as that. I thought the big story was love, family, romance. So I guess if I had it to do over, I would have stayed in school as long as humanly possible. After I finished an MFA in Writing at Columbia, I thought about getting a PhD in English, but decided against it. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
I should have stayed in school, some way or another. I just didn't get it then. The more school, the more opportunities I would have had, the more authority I would have had, the more choices I would have had, the more interesting people I would have met. I thought then I wanted my freedom -- to be free of school, to be done with it. Little did I know the more school I did then, the more freedom I would have NOW when it really matters.
And what kind of school would I have done ... more IT, more Finance, more languages for starters, maybe law. There was a JD/MBA program at Columbia I thought about but decided against. Wish I'd decided to stay there and apply.
One other thing. If you ever get the chance to work in sales -- do it. And I don't mean marketing, I mean sales. Everyone turns their nose up to sales, but try it before you judge it. It's hard as hell. In good times and bad, it's the best training ground for running a massive company, or starting your own one-woman shop. Also, it's full of men and you can learn a lot from men who know how to sell. You'll also see a company from the most powerful place in the organization, only second to the executive suite. The person who drags in the meat for the other cavedwellers to dine on, calls the shots. Even if you find you LOATHE sales, it's really good to know it from the inside.
And what about babies? I had one -- when I was 39 and had been in software and information services sales for a long time. If I had to do it over again. I'd have more babies earlier. Jeez! Did I say that?!?! I'd also keep working through my pregnancies and kid raising. I would NOT stop working. All the statistics show you lose enormous ground as a woman if you step out of the workforce. This means you MUST have a good husband who will share the childcare. How do you figure that one out in advance ... another post for another day ... but you might start by watching him with other kids, nieces, nephews. Also watch women who are happily married and have really helpful husbands and ask them how they found them.
Posted by Halley Suitt at 07:51 PM in General | Permalink
Comments
I'm on the cusp of 30 and actually reading this. I will be starting my third semester in part-time grad school at Hopkins (communications) and created my blog for my first class this past summer. Who would have thought, blogging and buying my first iBook at 29. I am single, no kids, in a management position at JH and def. wondering about a lot of what you write about. Half my gal pals are working/single/recently broke off engagements (I have three friends who have done this...maybe a bit weird to know so many, but it all cases, they weren't getting the level of support needed to stay in it.) The other half are preping for baby #2 and in most cases, not working. I do worry about when and where the child will fit in one day, and was surprised to hear you say have them earlier. I truly don't see how to fit it in sooner than 35, as there is no mate yet. But the schooling and working aspects, I agree 100% with your advice. And I will heed it. I might still considering moving to be with/near a man, but would hope to compliment, not compromise, my career plans if at all possible. Your post was a good boost on a dull december day to remember to keep things real and stimulating.
Posted by: Kelly Amabile at Dec 17, 2003 8:49:13 PM
Kelly -- Here I am again on a dull December night here in Boston. It is hard to juggle it all, isn't it? I was finishing grad school at 29 as well, and in no mood to get married and have babies, so easy to say I wished I'd done it sooner, but it wasn't practical for me either. I got married at 33, and maybe getting pregnant then would have been better than waiting until 39. Who knows. One thing that happened with having a baby was a great understanding of what matters and what doesn't and especially finding out how strong I was. Becoming a mother was the best thing I ever ever did. Best of luck with your work. Thanks for reading.
Posted by: Halley at Dec 17, 2003 9:00:32 PM
27 years old. PhD candidate & defending my dissertation in 6 months. No kids, married for 6+ years. And reading every sage word you write, Halley.
Posted by: kaye trammell at Dec 17, 2003 9:48:09 PM
Kaye -- Hope you know what a treat it was to meet you at BloggerCon. You're the best. You impressed the hell out of everyone there. Glad to see you doing grad school, blogging, teaching and marriage the right way from the beginning. Cheers -- H
Posted by: Halley at Dec 17, 2003 10:02:25 PM
Halley, I don't see any reason to regret not going for an English Ph.D. (And anybody who wants to call me anti-intellectual or anti-humanities at this point is invited to put up their dukes. :) )
My guess is you would not have found it rewarding.
Posted by: Dorothea Salo at Dec 17, 2003 10:26:03 PM
D -- you may well be right, especially with my proclivity for writing fiction, not fact. Surprised to see me here? Believe it or not I misplaced my password for typepad and when I asked them to email it to me, it mysteriously never arrived in my inbox (could be my mega-agressive spam killer). The secret password came to me like a flash of lightning tonight while doing dishes.
Posted by: Halley at Dec 17, 2003 10:33:50 PM
I do very much agree with you on the importance of public speaking. I'm not good at a party, and IRC channels leave me cold, but I am a very good public speaker and take some pride in this.
I don't think that schooling necessarily equates to opportunity, though I believe people should not be held back, at any age and in any circumstance, from taking additional eduction. It's not too late now for you to go to school, Halley. You're in a college town.
As for babies and sales, well, both leave me cold so will forgo comment on same.
Posted by: Shelley at Dec 18, 2003 12:18:17 AM
Boy, Halley, you really got me thinking this morning (as you often do here and on your own blog). I am 34 years old and I guess the one thing I would change was that I stayed in my second job 2 years too long. I was miserable, but terribly afraid of making a leap at that time (another job? graduate school? another job? a life? ARRGH). After those draining 2 years, I leapt (fell?) out of sheer desperation, and, after three months of sleeping day and night, began to walk the road that has ended up here nearly four years later -- the best time of my life so far -- as an business owner, entrepreneur and perpetual student.
Another thing which might have been nice to have changed was my social life (or lack thereof). It is only in the last year that, for the first time since college, I have found myself in a serious relationship. The loneliness of my 20s and early 30s was often simply hideous. I think that career-wise I would have been more likely to make changes if I had some kind of support system. Maybe that is one reason why married men have it easier.
Posted by: Elizabeth at Dec 18, 2003 6:55:04 AM
22 years old. Doing a MSc in Scotland, then returning to America for a year off before I start my PhD. I have no idea what country i'll even be doing my PhD in, but am having similar issues with following a boyfriend/finding a PhD school together, etc. It's very difficult to balance what's right for you professionally and what's right for you emotionally. It's reassuring to hear that someone else thinks it was a good idea to choose my career over my relationship for now, but we'll see what happens when PhD time rolls around.
Posted by: ghani at Dec 18, 2003 6:59:53 AM
Hey Shelley = I've heard you're an excellent speaker, hope to get to hear you in person one of these days. Thanks for the comment. With your mention of babies and sales leaving you cold, my mind runs wild per usual and I think, watch out, you might end up launching a baby clothes ecommerce site next thing we know.
Posted by: Halley at Dec 18, 2003 9:14:45 AM
I'm an older-ish mom too (38 yrs old with a two yr old) and working full time so I love hearing about how other women work through the challenges related to balancing work and "life outside." What I've learned is that 1) you make choices the best you can based on what you know at the time; 2) there's always trade-offs and only you can really understand how to balance them for yourself; 3) what works for you is the best thing for you, even if other people don't "get it" and 4) if you're doing (job, family, etc.) what makes you happy, everything else falls into place. Wow, what a bunch of cliches! But I've been getting a lot of mileage out of them lately as I consider some job and lifestyle changes. BTW, I just noticed as I write this, that I have pumpkin muffin shmutz, courtesy of my two-yr old, all over my navy blue dress and it doesn't seem to bother me. In fact, it's kinda funny. Yes, motherhood does something to your outlook!
Posted by: Helise at Dec 18, 2003 3:32:23 PM
Helise! Agggh! Don't tell them about the crud we get all over our clothes all the time! Makes those rosy Gerber Baby Food ads seem a little bit unrealistic and we know that's EXACTLY how blissful and lovely having a baby is, right?! :) Thanks for the very REALISTIC comment. H
Posted by: Halley at Dec 18, 2003 6:44:47 PM
I'm in my LATE twenties and I agree with most of what your said.
I only wish now that I could afford to somehow go to grad school.
Ladies, if you can do it... HEED THIS ADVICE. Stay in school and get that higher degree!
Posted by: Tek at Dec 19, 2003 12:11:13 AM
26, been working in the tech industry 6 years, and I have a 6 month old son. And boy, do I have a huge amount of respect for any woman who has children and works - it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life! But I wouldn't have it any other way. I am very passionate about what I do for a living, and my love for my son is all consuming.
Your comments about public speaking are interesting - I have had to do it a bunch of times in my career at various conferences; I've struggled to become a better public speaker and I'm proud of my improved skills in that area. But whenever I think about being a woman and doing public speaking of any sort, I am reminded of some of the problems I've seen other women deal with: On their speaker ratings after a session, they have gotten sexist comments about what they were wearing, how hot they were, etc. It's so sad.
Posted by: KC Lemson at Dec 19, 2003 12:35:42 AM
Halley, great post. Excellent point about public speaking. Extroverts have all the luck. And sales is one of the few paths to upper management because it's attached to dollars. With a Willie Lomanesque role model and a fear of "coffee is for closers" glengarries, I've always avoided doing sales myself. I can sell me and stuff I believe in (Howard Dean!) but the great salespeople seem to be the ones who can sell crap or stuff they don't understand.
Posted by: xian at Dec 19, 2003 3:44:05 AM
Your advice is sound for many people. I would add to it something about not putting yourself through too much grief because you made a mistake or veered off in an unproductive direction for awhile--even a long while. There is nothing that says that school has to happen when you are in your 20s or even that having babies has to happen at a certain age.
Don't be afraid to change directions, to pick yourself up and try something entirely different, to go after that dream that went on hold because life got in the way.
Posted by: Vicki Smith AKA CalGal at Dec 19, 2003 5:09:00 AM
Let me agree, and give an example:
After working in science/tech for most of her career, and raising 5 children, my mother went to art school as a full time student in her 60s. She is a now a conceptual artist/sculptor. It is never too late to reinvent and rediscover your life. What's perfect for you at one point may be less than perfect at another time. You make the best decisions you can along the way, but if you keep pursuing dreams as they come along, you will find a way to make them happen.
Posted by: Elizabeth Perry at Dec 19, 2003 9:54:58 AM
Excellent advice. I don't know anything about working in sales but the rest is what I might do if I had time to do it all over again. I'll be retiring soon (software developer) and can add that the IT work doesn't get any easier with age.
If you are a speaker, a natural leader, or have other non-technical skills that will lead to a variety of opportunities. I think starting at the bottom helps one appreciate the myriad of tasks that will be expected throughout the IT career.
Posted by: meg at Dec 19, 2003 6:04:40 PM
So you recommend doing more public speaking, going to more school, working more, especially in sales, and having more babies, earlier.
That's great. Can you also recommend an economical method to travel through space-time? Because that's the only way you're going to fit all that in your twenties.
Posted by: Julius at Dec 20, 2003 12:38:37 PM
I'm about to move to a city I've had many bad experiences with to live near someone I love and it's doing my head in. I don't really want to go and I certainly don't consider myself settled there, but not living there is worse. I have to go to find out if it's worth it or if I should just walk away from that city and that person. However I'm only 22 - I have a bit more leeway and a very large number of friends in that city. Although right now I'm not filled with glee I can see that there are new and interesting things to be done there, more things to explore and that hopefully the bad experiences of the past will be forgotten.
Posted by: steph at Dec 20, 2003 6:33:16 PM
I'm a thirty-one year old lawyer, and if I had to do it all over again.... jeez, where did the time all go?
I would have taken time off after finishing school (I graduated law at 22) instead of starting work so early. I wouldn't have gotten stuck in a career path that I hated, just because it was lucrative. Your advice is spot on.
Posted by: Erin at Dec 21, 2003 10:19:47 AM
With all due respect Halley, I gotta speak up on the grad school thing. I think you may be indulging in a little bit of a romanticizing grass-is-greener impulse here -- at least with regard to a PhD in the humanities. I spent a lot of my 20's in a PhD program in history, and I honestly cannot associate the experience with any of the good things you claim for it: opportunities, authority, choices, or interesting people. Au contraire, I left the program at the 11th hour precisely because there were no academic jobs, I got no help whatsoever from anyone at the university in finding an alternate career, I felt boxed-in and isolated, and everyone I knew was on lithium. At a deeper level, I felt that by having spent all that time in academia -- which basically rewards you for individual rather than group effort -- I had failed to develop the business and social skills that lead to opportunities in the working world. Practically the only real skill I learned in my PhD program was public speaking, from teaching.
Posted by: Troutgirl at Dec 21, 2003 6:11:52 PM
in my late 20s, and this post is right on target. i'd also like to add some advice:
1. work a job in retail. it keeps you humble and teaches you how to keep your cool when someone else is losing his.
2. remember that you can always change your mind.
Posted by: tiffany at Dec 22, 2003 3:47:14 PM
Halley --
I feel like an interloper here. Speaking as one of the husbands who is trying to be "good" and "helpful", I can say that the goal is indeed sharing, but not just the child care, everything. My wife worked while I spent two years getting my MA, then I worked for five years while she got her MA and got ABD on her doctorate, then she worked while I got an MBA, and now I'm working while she finishes up the diss. And we are planning on moving to wherever she finds a job. We have two kids, and although she is with the kids all day, I try my darnedest to take the housework and other chores off of her shoulders. Our situation is not typical, nor necessarily a model, but one of my goals is to make sure she finishes and has the opportunity to fulfill her dream, that of being a professor. The goal is to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts, at whatever stage of our careers we are.
Your advice is excellent. How do you find a "helpful husband"? For all of the single, professional women I know, I wish I knew. Re: Interacting with kids: some guys are better with different ages -- I was a much more effective father of a two-year old than I am of a four-year old, but I know it'll get better as she gets older.
I know, a bit rambling. But thanks for the site and the podium.
Posted by: Hugh at Dec 31, 2003 11:18:33 AM
Hi, now I feel like an oldie on this site but here goes! I turned 41 last week and feel 20 and I think my 40s are going to be a time for doing all the stuff I wish I'd done in my 20s. All that therapy must be kicking in! So I'm just finising off my MSc this year and am going to apply for a PhD programme in the United States (I'm in Ireland) which has been a dream of mine for so long it's hard to remember when. I've put it off and off coming up with a 100 different excuses about why it couldn't happen for me - from finance through to opportunity, but I woke up this week and decided that unless I start actually "doing" something about this NOW, I will be posting on my blog in 10 years about all the things I should have done in my 40s and forgot to do.
I'm single, with no kids and I think it can be difficult when you don't have the visible external and socially agreed indicators for success...it's time I made my own!
Thanks for the article!
Posted by: annette at Jan 2, 2004 5:44:35 AM
