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October 13, 2004
Don't wanna fight anymore
I thought Anil Dash made great points in his two posts about the frequent incivility involved in online communication, especially amongst webloggers. (Update: Shelley Powers also writes a good post on the topic, Wrath of the Webloggers.)
Then, today I happened upon HelenJane.com's post entitled ArgueArgue. She writes:
And where are the ladies?
They don't feel like making everything a fucking argument.
That's where they are.
This spoke to me.
Often I feel guilty for not being louder online - you know, for not making more of an effort to be visible, to be heard, to be one of the people arguing in various forums about insane technical details, for not trampling on someone for making a stupid mistake to right everyone else in the world, to make the point that I'M! A KNOWLEDGEABLE! DEVELOPER! AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! AND YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO ME!
But honestly, I'd just rather spend my time and energy elsewhere.
Posted by Gina at 03:11 PM | Permalink
Comments
One doesn't have to argue, or be loud, but I think it helps to be aware; including being aware of the fact that women also wrote on the same issues Anil wrote on.
I also think that that women all too often look in disdain at other women, including the ones that are loud. As if they wouldn't want such women at their tea parties.
I think this group promotes certain behavior, and then punishes other -- forcing women into a specific mold to get approval. Haven't we had this from men long enough? Evidentally not.
Posted by: Shelley at Oct 13, 2004 3:45:54 PM
Women contributing to Free Software (the community doesn't fully overlap with blogs, so the occasional confusion of "women in tech" with "women who blog" can be a little puzzling to me) have had this discussion a lot of times. I wasn't particularly afraid of a fight but I did find having to pace in outrage for half an hour every time I got involved in a discussion very tiring.
These days, I am trying harder and harder to remember that the fact that someone has argued with me doesn't mean that my point is invalid. I don't have to rebut every single argument before my original point has any merit. I don't have to respond to every single comment before my original point has any merit.
Often now I find that I can in fact actively shape discussions to be more useful and less pointlessly flamey by deliberately choosing only to respond to thoughtful arguments and points. It's not exactly "don't feed the trolls", it's more like encouraging useful discussion by responding to it.
Posted by: Mary at Oct 14, 2004 4:35:38 AM
Hear, hear! Women are more often peace makers, unless their turf, their family,
or their friends are concerned. I'm not reading the same material you are, folks in
my bloglines or email or elsewhere are not wondering where the women are...they
know where we are : we're online!!! I think you have a unique issue...women in
technology are not as visible as women in news or fiction or decorating or executive
positions, etc. Technology, in and of itself, is a mysterious field. It's like magic,
or something. I think the women should be heard, should speak out, but I applaud your
determination not to get loud, obnoxious or forceful just to get noticed. It's
happening. Not fast enough, surely, but ... the rest of us, women who are on the
edges of tech... are working to highlight the techies among us.
Posted by: Yvonne DiVita at Oct 14, 2004 8:19:25 AM
It's funny you mention feeling guilty for not being "louder" online.
That guilt is another sneaky trap.
Our whole web development team is made up of incredibly smart and proactive women that have other things to do than point out "how abcnews.com doesn't validate" (http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/10/abcnews-redesigns) on development boards.
We'd rather note how it works and get on with it.
Ain't no shame, baby, ain't no shame.
Posted by: helenjane at Oct 14, 2004 11:46:16 AM
Helenjane you're so in my regular reading list now. :)
Posted by: Gina at Oct 14, 2004 4:36:28 PM
beautiful site, i am now rss fed :)
best wishes - bk (employed and self-employed in music tech)
Posted by: b k at Oct 25, 2004 12:47:52 PM
