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November 04, 2005

i have no words

I tried to come up with a catchy title for this post, I really did. But I'm so frigging disheartened by the comments to  this post from 37 Signals on "software for women" that I've run out of clever ways to frame it.

Chris wrote that it seems to him that most software seems to be designed more for men than for women, and invited his readers to discuss the issue. And they did. Like this:

I think this has more to do with the amount and type of usage than anything else. Women (generally) like things that flash and have that ‘wow factor’ because their common exposure to their system is Instant Messenger and the associated Smilies.

And this:

Of course it is. More men design software. More men use software.

Why on earth would one purposefully create software for women, the minority of users?  Would you design a parking lot for Ugos?

Obviously there are (few) exceptions, but by far the majority of computer users are men.

And this...

I see women getting defensive and petulent.

I see men making a lot of stupid comments (possibly this is the cause of point 1, but I don’t think so).

Let it go ladies, you had a chance to contribute something meaningful to this conversation but instead you made it a big gender flame.

There are a few people trying to weigh into the thread with reasonable statements--pointing out, for example, that it's not so surprising that when men dominate in the production of software, the products that result would be more appealing to men. But there's far more noise than signal, and the noise is so familiar, and so disheartening.


Posted by Liz Lawley at 02:28 PM | Permalink

Comments

Isn't it also just plain incorrect to say that women are *by far* in the minority of computer users? There are some markets for which this is more true (first person shooters, say), but offices and homes are full of women computer users. I can only imagine that that commenter has a sample size of his household, or something of that order of magnitude. Or perhaps his is one of the few offices in the world where all the word processing is done by men.

Honestly, after years of having this discussion and similar ones time after time after time on LinuxChix, I'm beginning to think it's just easier and more fun to shut up and show them the code.

Posted by: Mary at Nov 5, 2005 12:58:35 AM

I read that post too, and had no idea how to respond. Very scary and very sad. What makes a design really all that feminine or masculine anyway? If it's appealing to a man, there is a good chance it will be considered masculine. A good eye for design has nothing to do with gender. I spend more time with a computer than most of the men I know, and so does my mother. Would a man take my design or code seriously if he hadn't seen my photo first? Realistically? I think it's debatable.

Posted by: Liz at Nov 5, 2005 1:48:55 AM

We already knew there are people who love believing that women can be made peripheral to tech creation/use. 'Oh, I have a penis, which puts me in the club with famous male techies. And you don't, so you're in the club with J Lo and the Wicked Witch of the West and my girlfriend who likes pink things that go flashy-flashy.'

I agree it's annoying, but the club that UGO guy belongs in is Internet troll>Attention-seeking troll. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#Attention-seeking_trolls

Posted by: Betsy Devine at Nov 5, 2005 10:33:06 AM

Don't feel too disheartened...there is a very big difference between discussion and "venting". I've been involved in science and technology since the 60's - I am a physicist, write algorithms that identify networks, and still paint my toenails. Different mind profiles have different behaviors. Please don't get disheartened by one guy trying to bait you. Stick with the issues at hand - and do them in your own unique way.

Posted by: Colby Stuart at Nov 5, 2005 11:31:29 AM

Betsy and Colby, you're right that some of those comments are from trolls, and that I shouldn't let them get to me. But it's not just this one thread. It's the unrelenting consistency of these threads, and the appearance of them on sites that many people think of as authoritiative/valuable sources. It just never seems to abate.

Posted by: Liz at Nov 5, 2005 8:29:16 PM

I had to stop reading through the comments half-way through. I also thought it was pretty depressing.

Sometimes I feel the urge to chime in and have a discussion. Usually I feel like just telling people to shut up: How do you start teaching when faced with this level of ignorance? Then I follow my own advice and don't even speak up. That's depressing, too.

Posted by: Alex Schroeder at Nov 6, 2005 8:20:18 PM

There are those men, who think this twisted way, but, i don't see, why paying attention to them
is of any importance, and i think women, should stop "waiting around the corner" to remarks like that, just as an excuse of getting angry. this anger, or this aggressive feminist aproch is ridiculous.
it's only by us women, expanding and working and using our minds, intelligence as well as looks, that we advance.
and Hilary clinton is only one very good example, among many others.
true, men did rule the history of men kind for way too long, but the change is up to us, and revolution, such as letting women be on the top, is taking time, but it prove right, so evolution will MAKE IT HAPPEN

Posted by: Moon at Nov 12, 2005 1:43:18 PM

I hear ignorant comments like that, sometimes where I work even which is a large, government IT department. I still can't believe it when I hear men in the office say something like that, especially when they work side by side with a lot of great women programmers, techs, admins, info technology officers, etc, who probably don't use smilies and want fluffy pink Hello Kitty computers (not that there's anything wrong with that..). All I can do is continue to prove myself in my field (tech ops manager), but its frustrating feel like I have to always prove myself over and over again.

I love this blog - adding to my faves.

Posted by: DD at Nov 19, 2005 4:46:44 PM